Stay In Medicine Episode 1 - Dr. Leon McCrae
A relentless pursuit of creating a more diverse environment in medicine with dr. Leon McCrae
Episode Summary
Dr. Cruz sits down with Dr. Leon McCrea, Associate Professor; Program Director; Family Medicine Residency, Senior Associate Dean of Diversity, Equity & Inclusion at Drexel University about issues facing the medical field and potential solutions to solve them.
About Dr. Leon McRae, MD
Leon McCrea II, MD, MPH is an associate professor in the Department of Family, Community & Preventive Medicine, and the director of the Family Medicine Residency program at Drexel University College of Medicine. He also serves as senior associate dean for diversity, equity, and inclusion.
He is a key part of the Drexel Pathway to Medical School team, managing the faculty mentorship aspect of the program, and is involved with the Drexel Black Doctors Network student group, promoting the organization to other physicians.
Dr. McCrea is the faculty adviser for the Family Medicine Interest Group and a volunteer preceptor for the student-run Health Outreach Project clinics. He currently serves as chair of the Graduate Medical Education Committee on Resident and Fellow Wellness. He is also the course director of the Clinical Internship Scribe program, a collaboration with Holy Family University.
Quotes
“When I think about why I’m doing medicine, it starts with creating opportunities for people that look like me. What does that mean? People who either come from historically unrepresented groups or folks who may have not had opportunities to get access. I feel that it’s my passion and responsibility to create avenues for them to become physicians.”
“If there’s a key, if there’s one thing I try to tell everybody today, it is you actually have to share with others what your dreams are. Because if you don’t tell them your dreams no one can help you. If an opportunity comes up they’ll never know. They will never know. ”
“Sometimes you need someone to create the dream for you before you know what to dream about. I can remember when I was a kid, someone asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up, and I didn’t have an answer.”
Full Transcript
CRUZ: Hi everyone, and welcome to Stay in Medicine. I'm Dr. Janet Cruz.
Tonight I have the pleasure of sharing a conversation with Dr. Leon McCrea. Leon for me is what I envision in a family medicine physician. He is an absolutely amazing mentor, educator, leader, and beloved by his patients. Before we jump into the show let me just list a few of his many accomplishments:
Leon started his journey at Brown University, followed by the University of Pittsburgh, where he earned his doctorate in medicine and masters in public health
He completed his residency at Crozier Keystone Family Medicine residency program, where they liked him so much he stayed and subsequently became associate program director
in 2015 he caught the eye of Drexel University College of Medicine and was recruited to serve as the program director of their family medicine residency program and was appointed associate professor of family medicine
Leon is absolutely a builder and committed to making medicine better for everyone. As such, he has served in various committees and boards, including the Association of Family Medicine Residency Directors which he is now part of a board of directors. He has also served on many panels including panels surrounding diversity and health equity. In 2018 he was appointed assistant dean of diversity equity and inclusion for Drexel University College of Medicine and was recently promoted to senior associate dean.
Leon, welcome to the show.
MCCREA: Thank you so much, Janet, great to be here.
CRUZ: It is an absolute pleasure to have this conversation, and really to show the world, you know, the individuals that are in medicine right now. The one thing that I most admire about you - and I've always admired about you - is your relentless pursuit of creating a more diverse environment in medicine.
I’ve seen you do this in real-time. I think for most workforces, they want a diverse presence. We know there's evidence that having a diverse presence is really key to solving complex problems, and you have done this at Drexel, and continue to do it. So tell us a little bit more about your passion for this venture.
MCCREA: Thanks so much, I definitely appreciate the words, and I'm a little bit humbled. It's always a little bit crazy when you hear people talk about you. I'll start with this: When I think about why I'm doing medicine, I think it really starts with creating opportunities for people who look like me.
What does that mean? It means people who either come from historically underrepresented groups, it means folks who may have not otherwise had opportunities to get access, and it really is my passion - my responsibility - to create avenues for them to become physicians. It matters for a number of reasons, the most important of which is that these individuals are more likely to take care of under-served populations.
You know we know that if there is a concordance between doctor and patient, health outcomes improve. So if I can increase the amount of individuals who are actually gonna be high-quality providers, then I feel like I've just made a little piece of contribution —to this role into this journey. So you know that that is really what's giving me my drive—it's what kind of gets me up every day, it gives me my juice/my energy. That's what I try to provide every day I go to work.
CRUZ: It's funny - I don't know if you knew this about me, Leon or not, but I was actually part of those programs. When I was in high school I didn't know I wanted to go into medicine. I actually just told my guidance counselor, “Listen I need to go to college—and I need to go for free—and I'll do whatever it takes,” That's how I actually ended up in this BS/MD program, combined bachelor's and medical degree program.
I remember doing these summer programs that were tailored for minorities that were interested in science. One was sponsored by Exxon and we built robots. I had no idea the world that was out there.
For my family, you're a large family of five children. Both my parents maybe reached the sixth grade and it was just a different world that wasn't available for me until people invested and made those opportunities available. And, I mean I will toot my own horn—I think I am an absolutely amazing physician.
I think a lot of patients identify, they're more inclined to reveal things that they might not have revealed. I mean I've had patients that come to see us in the office hey Dr. Cruz, you listen, you know you get how hard it is when they're diabetic—you know at least for me, I'm Puerto Rican right—we eat rice and beans every day and for me saying “Hey listen I know your diet because I eat it—I love it —but tweak it this way.
This is what I do at home, this is how I do Christmases in my family, and we're still culturally doing the things that you love. So for me, it hits some heartstrings, because it required people like you to invest in a system that really provided these opportunities for me to be in medicine today.
MCCREA: So Janet, I think you touch on a couple of things. I think the first thing you mention when you talk about the pipeline and the planting of the dream. Sometimes you need someone to create the dream for you before you know what to dream about. I can remember when I was a kid, someone asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up, and I didn't have an answer.
My mom was like, “absolutely unacceptable, tell him something.” So I was like “...doctor... lawyer... something, whatever...” I was good at math and science and so from that moment doctor was the thing. I didn't know all the steps but someone just planted the seed.
Then it was summer programs, you know in Pennsylvania we had this thing called the Pennsylvania Government School for Sciences. I went and I was hanging out with all these really bright students across the state and we were exchanging ideas. That's where I actually learned about Brown University.
I didn't even know Brown University existed until I was in 11th grade. My summer counselor was there, in this medical program at Brown, and all of a sudden I was like “oh my gosh I want to be like her” So I literally applied to Brown, went on this trip, went up there, saw the campus, and ended up having this phenomenal experience. When I look at it I think like oh my gosh that's where it began.
Someone started to plant the dream - and then what you do is you just have to flower—you just have to nurture it. If you nurture and flower it, eventually it grows and develops into something. It is that ability to connect and to believe and then that translates into ultimately patient care.
So you know you mentioned the rice and beans and or Spanish rice or whatever else. My running joke with my patrons is people always say oh my gosh Dr. McCrea, you have this patient following. I'm like, well you know I mean I've been a doctor for a little bit, and I enjoy taking care of my patients. They'll be waiting for you for like an hour, two hours, and don't complain. I don't get it. What I say is listen, I am unapologetic about the kind of doctor that I am.
I figured out really early what it was that were the things that were exciting to me about the doctor-patient relationship, and for me, that was the ability to sit down, and actually have a conversation, and know something about your life.
I share a story about something that's going on in my life and then they tell me three more stories, and now that I understand what's happening with them I can actually take care of them. So the running joke of my patients is I tell them all look just come on in, bring your iPad, bring a book, just get comfortable, and then they know once I'm in the room with them they got my time.
It may go a little over sometimes, it may be quicker sometimes, then they go bring up an extra problem, but once I'm in the room with them, I'm in the room with them, and then that's just been their relationship.
So I think that the other thing that happens with that, is that you know what was really important as you kind of evolve as a doctor, to increasingly become comfortable in your own skin. Have a realization about who you are and what are the gifts that you contribute, and then if you can actually embrace those gifts, I think you are actually able to share them and do greater things.
One of the things I think we all suffer with—and they come up with fancy names for now—imposter syndrome, whatever they want to call it these days. It really is all-around this concept of “Am I focusing on the things that I do well or am I always looking at the one or two things where I may not be so perfect?”
Instead of spending 80% of the time trying to fix that small piece of me, that's not amazing, how about I lean into my awesomeness? Like Janet, you are awesome, and you are phenomenal leaning into that awesomeness all the time. You know, listen I wish I could still have hair, right I'm follically challenged like that isn't my thing anymore. So you know what? I've embraced not having to worry about my hair anymore. It is an awesome thing I've just totally turned it on its head.
So those are the kind of things that I think that that we need as physicians, as we kind of lean into this new existence, is an understanding and an embracing of who are we and are we comfortable in our own skin.
CRUZ: Yeah and it is interesting because you know, we're both educators. We both have medical students that shadow us, and see I know coming out of some encounters where I share my personal stories with students but also with patients. I tell patients all the time you know, “Hey, what you're going through is hard, and tell me what's going on at home. Tell me what's going on.” I feel like we provide more than just actual medications.
It is funny that you mention your patients staying and really committing to staying/waiting for you. This was about a year ago now, but I have this couple that I absolutely love. You know I know them, I feel like, on a personal level.
During lunch, I used to run in Philly and one of them saw me in a car—chased me down “Hey Dr. Cruz! Slow down” He has peripheral vascular disease, and you know in Philly at least for me, I'm not used to an inner-city—you know someone yelling my name and chasing down after me. I was like okay what's going on so I turned—
MCCREA: Were you about to pull out like your military techniques? Like what's up? Right?
CRUZ: It's so funny though because you know I slowed down, I turn around and it's this patient that I've been following. I was able to get him to stop smoking and I mean he is the success story, but you know he ran down. I said, “are you okay?“ He goes yeah, this is—this is the most amount of exercise that I've done—and I did it for you, Dr. Cruz!” I said all right listen we're getting there—we're getting there!
But I feel like once you make that connection to your patients they'll do more themselves. And I think at least in my experience, especially if you have a physician that looks like them, that identifies with them, they start believing in themselves more. You know at least that's been my experience.
MCCREA: I just think the other thing is, you know we often think as doctors that we're not supposed to be selfish. But you know what selfish is for me, and I think it makes me enjoy my job, is I like hanging out with my patients too. That feeds me. If the interaction with the patient wasn't to some degree feeding me, then I should be doing something different.
I should not be completely drained from the entire patient experience, because if then I need to change the dynamic and the patient experience so that some component of that is feeding my soul. If I'm getting something out of it, if I'm enjoying that interaction, if I feel comfortable enough to give a patient you know my cell phone number. So they can text me if something actually is happening in their life, and no, they're not going to abuse it, that's that level. I actually want you to be a little bit closer to me, I want you to be part of my life.
You know we are family doctors. Our genesis is being in the community. Our genesis is having a group of people for whom we are responsible.
I took a trip to Cuba not that long ago and had an opportunity to see what it was like to practice medicine there. The family medicine doc is on the bus, riding into practice, riding with everybody else. Has an office in the community literally not much bigger than two of our exam rooms and a closet for an office. Everything is done in that space and literally, it looks like a house. People come, and he goes and does deliveries in people's homes, it's the pure essence. When I was there it just felt so pure.
You're at one with your community - there wasn't this crazy hierarchy and definitely not any EHR stuff, you know electronic health records, but it just felt pure.
I think that sometimes we just need to remember: What are you doing this for? Who are you doing this for? You can be doing it for a lot of reasons. It can be for financial security, it can be because it gives you a warm feeling in your belly, it can be because you know there are people who are under-served and you feel like you need to manage those individuals.
It could be because it scratches an intellectual itch, all of which are okay. You need to find the thing though, that pushes you in that direction.
CRUZ: So I want to talk a little bit, or focus on your passion for bringing these opportunities for individuals that wouldn't otherwise have these opportunities into medicine. As an individual that is part of an underrepresented population in medicine, what barriers have you faced? What sort of challenges have you faced with this health care system, and then how did you break past them?
MCCREA: It's a fantastic question and so I always like to preface things by saying that, I am blessed, that I am privileged. I am blessed and I am privileged and that I had an opportunity to have two parents who invested in me, who laid incredible foundations. I was able to go to phenomenal universities and ultimately take advantage of education to make a fantastic career.
It doesn't mean though it is not wrought with missteps, most of which have to do with the fact that many of us are charting the journey on our own for the first time.
How do you deal with failure if you've never failed before? How do you understand about studying with others? How do you break into social circles that are different than anything you've ever had before? How do you start to have conversations about things that were never part of the conversations you had when you grew up?
How do you understand the power dynamic that is medicine, the hierarchy, those responsibilities? How do you deal with the isolation associated with when things don't go according to plan—because it's great when everything is going perfect—you know I always call uh the journey to becoming a physician like a Facebook page where everyone you interact with always shows you their best self.
Like no one posts crap on Facebook, right? They're always smiling, they're always beaching, like no one puts on Facebook themselves unmade up/didn't brush their teeth and haven't showered in four days. All you see is their glam shots—isn't life great?
The same thing happens in medical school right, which is that you know people only present their best self. So you think that when you're having a difficult time, everyone else must be going perfectly well because there's no open communication.
And then there's just all of the hidden curriculum that is the path to becoming a physician. Understanding, not every question is actually a good question. Like, oh you mean I can't just ask that? I'm actually not allowed to be one hundred percent vulnerable in this space? This person's supposed to be teaching me but I need to still prove myself every time.
You know I used to have hair right? I was not always follicularly challenged. I had dreads halfway down my back. How do I discern when there are people who are either staff members or nurses or other clinicians who are saying “Can I touch that? How do you do that? Is that stuck on?” Or you know, “What is a dread exactly? How do you wash it?
CRUZ: Where's, where's also, the boundary between they're just curious—or now they're being rude. Like could we do that you know? It is very interesting because you know for myself, in medicine, we had a small group of Latino students and a lot of the things culturally that we do to connect—like in my family, on Christmas, you play dominoes—there are these certain things that you do to connect. We had a small group of friends that kind of shared a similar culture. When I stepped into the military, I was the only one, at least from the officer end, enlisted.
MCCREA: As you continue to redefine yourself in terms of your position, you often find that you're increasing isolation because there are not often people in the same position, right? I always say to myself, if I was looking for an African-American male, in medicine, in significant leadership to be my mentor, I would be looking for a really long time.
So one of the first things I had to learn when you talk about barriers and things you learn to overcome is that you have to learn how to find mentorship, to find sponsorship, and define advising and people who don't look like you because there is initially oftentimes intimidation around even having the openness or willingness to start having those conversations.
Can I trust this person? If I'm vulnerable what does it mean? Will they understand what I'm talking about if I decide to be vulnerable?
If there's a key, if there's one thing I try to tell everybody today, it is you actually have to share with others what your dreams are. Because if you don't tell them your dreams no one can help you. If an opportunity comes up they'll never know. They will never know.
I cannot tell you how many times I have people, especially people who look like us, who say things like why was I passed over? My first response is often did anyone know you actually wanted the opportunity?
Oftentimes people will say things to me like “I've been here a long time by now. they should recognize my talent.” All of which is true, and yet and yet you still have to make it known.
You know there's this old joke about somebody who lives in a neighborhood, and they're running for an office, and you figure all your neighbors would vote for you right because you're all in a neighborhood together you know? And then the guy loses the election and goes to his neighbor, and says how come you didn’t vote for me? He says well you never came and asked me for your vote! You need to tell people—even though your neighbor knows you're running—you have to go and let someone know what it is that you're interested in.
Other things I think are barriers that we have to overcome—some of it is the imposter syndrome—it is that idea that I'm so focused on the things I'm not perfect at, that I don't lean into my strengths. There are things that we are amazing at, and we are so concerned about those other things that we just don't (as I'm leaning into the camera) just lean in a little bit.
CRUZ: We don't realize it ourselves. At least for me, very early in my career, there were things that I was so good, at and I was just so focused on what everyone else was doing. And I said oh goodness I don't know what, I don't know how to do this, I should know, you know a lot. I can't tell you how much in my first two years of being an attending, I was like, I should know how to do this, I should know how to—instead of saying you know, I'm really good at this and just running with that.
Now, you know me very well—now I'm good at operations—but I finally have gotten comfortable with just going with it. This is part of the conversation that I have with med students now, with residents that rotate with us. Really outlining “Listen, you're really good at this, have you thought about this? Have you thought about getting an MBA in addition to your MD?” Because even for me it took someone doing that for me to really push me to the next level.
MCCREA: To make things more crystal—you're exemplar in so many things and one of the things that I appreciate about you as a colleague, is that I can learn from you and we can have conversations about life. We can have conversations about structuring a practice better. We can have conversations about how would you treat that?
Part of professional growth is also having a vulnerability enough to be able to say I don't know everything and there's someone who may be amazing—who may look like me, who may have more education than me who may have less, who may have been doing this longer or been doing this shorter—and I can't be bothered by the idea that because of the way it's packaged that it can't help me.
We started this conversation around the idea of how do we create diverse workforces. How do we keep our passion in medicine?
As you know we've been through incredible times in medicine. You know, we've been through and living now in a world of a pandemic. We understand much more about the business of medicine with challenges in terms of health systems being able to sustain themselves. We understand all of the components that are medicine and through that, it is no small feat that the groups that survive those challenges the best are the most diverse groups.
You know when I interview folks for jobs they often ask me like, well what's your view on diversity? And I say just look. I don't have to prove to you that I'm into diversity. Look at our faculty, look at our residents. We live it.
CRUZ: For a lot of our listeners I think they won't understand everything that we've gone through so I'll give them a quick snippet. We were part of Hahnemann University Hospital in Philadelphia, a hospital that has had financial struggles for a long time. Hospital leadership declared bankruptcy, and a lot of residency programs just scrambled.
What to do, what are we gonna do? The Drexel Family Medicine residency program was the only one that was able to transition to another healthcare system intact. So for our listeners here, that you know that seems at least for me it was a fairy tale and I actually joked with another colleague saying okay we have to have some sort of white horse come in and save the day. But honestly, it was us.
MCCREA: It was us.
CRUZ: It was, you know, our diverse faculty. Diverse in position, in culture, and in race. I mean, we all banded together and we were able to, what write a new program?
MCCREA: What normally would take three to six months we handled in four days. So you know that those will be the times, but those are about unifying around the mission. It's about understanding what we stand for and it's about the fact that we had because we had diverse talent, we had numbers of individuals that brought different things to the table that when put together made us more successful.
CRUZ: —and commitment. I mean it was just that commitment to the community too.
MCCREA: Absolutely. That is unending with us. I mean, it was the idea that we need to make sure that we are contributing in a steadfast way to our population.
CRUZ: —we are committed to our educational mission and we're committed to each other.
MCCREA: Right! like yeah, I wanted you to stay my colleague. That matters to me. I like being able to just send a quick text message, or see you on a Zoom, or see you in a meeting. Pop over to your office and have some insomnia cookies. You know, something to that effect. You know we can just have a good time.
CRUZ: So for systems, for health systems that really want this. I feel like a lot of health systems, they want to have a diverse workforce. They want to recruit individuals that will help solve big problems. They just don't know how. So what investments do we have to make in our system to allow this to be possible?
MCCREA: So—many. First, we have to embrace that this is a question that can ultimately never be perfectly answered. It's like how do you get enough diversity? Never have enough. You're always continuing to work and develop. We also have to understand that our pool of talented individuals is also incredibly small relative to the need.
Health systems need more diverse physicians, clinicians, educators, etc, administrators, leaders, that are available. So the first piece has to be working to build our pipeline. So that's the one piece right, so you mentioned pipeline programs, you mentioned education, you mentioned all those things. That's one piece of the puzzle.
The other piece that I think is underutilized is we actually have to invest more significantly in our leaders when they're in—especially in their early and mid-career. Because we need to reinvest in that educational piece. The more investment I put in Janet—the better she is—the more opportunities she creates for others.
CRUZ: It's funny you mentioned that because I had the opportunity of getting that in the military. Leadership was not an “extra.” It was an expectation. And as such, because it was an expectation, you were assigned a mentor. You were assigned. There was a structure around our new faculty that really primed them up and prepared them for leadership roles.
Transitioning to academics it's there, but you have to find it. It’s not a defined structure, and it's not an expectation. So when you want a lot of these physicians or clinicians to really step up as leaders, I feel like they just don't know how to. They want to. They don't know how.
MCCREA: The reason why I talk about leader development is incredibly important is that we need more people in capacities to make decisions. So you need them in your c-suite, you need them as training directors, you need them as office managers. Because who's going to make the decisions on who we hire.
Who's going to decide what are the characteristics that we're looking for, to make the next great hire? Are there other traits? Does it matter what the GPA was? Does it matter what college you went to? Does it matter the distance traveled?
Who has experience dealing with all those things? Who can see the talent where others don't?
That isn't because people who are from historically underrepresented backgrounds are not the most talented. I'm not saying that at all.
I'm actually saying oftentimes they're overqualified because of the amount that they've had to endure. To actually get to where they are. If you get someone of color or someone from an underrepresented group who's making it—trust, TRUST—they have traveled a journey. They have understood how to navigate those minefields. They've had many successes and they've also had challenges they've overcome.
One of the things that I often look for—I'm a residency program director—which means I train family medicine doctors. One of the things that I often look for in my applicants is, have you failed and how did you respond? Because I actually love it when someone's had a significant challenge and then they've shown me that they can overcome it.
CRUZ: You know it shows their character and I think in medicine, man, we face things that you know, at least for me I didn't know, that I was gonna face. When I was an attending, a patient death or maybe a wrong diagnosis—because we're not perfect—and as much as we try, you know sometimes we get it wrong.
How do you turn around from that? And how do you do that with integrity? How do you do that without just giving up? How do you look a patient in the face and say, “Listen I'm sorry. I thought it was this but it wasn't, but I'm gonna lead you through.”
That takes a certain amount of character to be able to do that. So one hundred percent agree with you, Leon.
MCCREA: You know, you and I have collaborated on a number of efforts and initiatives. We've built and one of the things I think that happens is, is that when you get people who are similar in drive—we don't have to actually drive the car the same way—but if we have a motor you can definitely pull in the right direction.
So when we talk about again how do you create that diverse workforce, pipeline, leadership training, creating inclusive environments. So how do you do that?
So yes it's leadership training, it's also challenging people in those spaces to actually learn and undo some of the things that they've historically done. It's teaching people about so how do you decrease the cloak of that privilege? How do you share your pulpit, how do you share that space? How do you decide I don't actually need to lead on this project?
I do need to say, you know what the person sitting next to me needs an opportunity. Because it is not just mentorship and advising, it is sponsorship. It is who is talking and saying phenomenal things about you. But I also believe this: We are also responsible for our own destinies. I never want to absolve personal accountability and responsibility as a part of it.
We live in a world now where we are all challenged with balancing things—like wellness, work-life balance, accountability, you know—Fatigue. Exhaustion. Work too much, not enough. Work integrator, work segmentor. There are all these fancy words around how do you find the perfect balance.
Each person has to decide for themselves what it is that is a good work-life balance. I have it, but most people will see my life and think I am completely on tilt. And yet I love what I do. I wouldn't be happier doing other things.
The people in my life that know me, and understand me, and that I love, also understand that this is who I am. So if I'm working on a Monday night and other people are watching tv, or I'm hanging out and doing something on a Sunday afternoon related to work. But then I stop and I play cards with the kids, and then we—whatever we're watching something on Marvel and Disney channel—like I just flip it and I bounce it.
I love that engagement. But I'm not scared of the grind and the hard work because the other part of it is that—the other part of being able to survive and thrive in this is balancing that hard work and being ready when the opportunities present themselves.
The other thing just comes to my mind and I was just giving a talk the other night, and I tell people this all the time. You need to be as selective with your nose, as you are with your guesses. Be careful about what it is that you not only say yes to—but also be careful about what it is you decide to turn away. Because sometimes the one thing, that one session where someone invites you to a meeting, the meeting may not be the “thing” but it may be the person you sit next to at that meeting.
Who is the person that you just happen to share a conversation with? Who becomes the door to your next professional opportunity that would not have happened if you just didn't carve out 30 minutes of your time to take advantage of a new opportunity? So when I talk about that push—I'm sorry go-ahead—
CRUZ: I was going to say, and for a lot of our students, you know that at least for me coming from a different culture, different background. I know for me it is even now sometimes uncomfortable to go to a meeting or maybe a dinner event. I really have to push myself, but I one hundred percent know, I've gone or even had conversations with people that you wouldn't typically, and I have had opportunities come from that that I would have never had.
Right now I'm kind of helping oversee these COVID operations for our university, and my right hand really helps me, it was an opportunity, it was just casual conversation. We both went to an event that I wasn't actually gonna go to initially. I had to push myself. So I agree, you know sometimes, we find opportunities in these social events outside of work too.
MCCREA: I am amazed that we are each put in positions now where we can not only continue to develop phenomenal careers but actually impact opportunities for others. The other part of this is like, why keep doing this? The first thing I think to myself is well what else would I be doing?
CRUZ: Right? Like I'd be a terrible cook.
MCCREA: My thought is that if I wasn't a physician I would be teaching something. I teach medicine every day, and I love it. I love teaching, my patients, I love doing those things. Nothing gives me more joy than that interaction. Whether it's a resident, trainee, a medical student, and helping them reach whatever that goal is. Sometimes it's passing a test. Sometimes it's understanding a medical diagnosis. Sometimes it's dealing with something in their personal life.
I'm here right now to help people as a part of their journey because there have been people who helped me and mine. It would be disingenuous for me to extract myself when I know I have—possess—a skill set that can actually allow others to fulfill what it is that they have. That really is what fuels me.
Then the other piece is if I wasn't doing what I was doing I wouldn't meet you. I remember interviewing you for your job. I mean like, let's bring it back. I remember you sitting in that little office I used to have, with not a real window but a little piece of glass, and we were having a phenomenal conversation.
I was like I need to work with her—I don't know what's gonna happen, I don't know if we can figure out all the details, but what I've figured out is that I want as much talent in the room as I can get.
You give me all the talent, I'll figure it out. Because what I don't want is people who don't have skills. I want people who want to work, who have defined skill sets, and that's like, let’s figure out all these challenges together.
One of them is how do we create environments where our other colleagues want to stay and do this work? So part of that is is that how do we help each other find those components of the job that feed us? You have to find something in your daily walk that actually feeds you.
CRUZ: And for our listeners here you know, for me, medicine is about relationships. You know the reason I stay is that relationship with my colleagues, relationship with my patients, so again this kind of brings it you know full circle.
You're listening to Leon and myself talk about why we stay in medicine. I want you to explore why you stay in medicine. How can we help each other stay in a field that is very difficult right now? Being a physician is difficult. It has its challenges. The work hours are what they are, but then the rewards—at least for me—coming home at the end of the day and having a student that got it.
You know they figured it out, or had done their first pelvic exam and are super excited. I know for me that is why I continue to stay in medicine and why I encourage others to, just like you Leon, try to figure out what motivates them. How can we make it better? How can we make this system better?
So with that, thank you, Leon, thank you so much for joining us tonight.
If you would like to know more about Dr. Leon McCrea or Stay in Medicine, please visit our website stayinmedicine.com. Check us out whenever possible, and with our podcast, let's keep these conversations going. Thank you, everyone.
